Legislature(2001 - 2002)

03/05/2002 08:10 AM House CRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS                                                                            
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                         March 5, 2002                                                                                          
                           8:10 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Carl Morgan, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Andrew Halcro                                                                                                    
Representative Drew Scalzi                                                                                                      
Representative Lisa Murkowski                                                                                                   
Representative Gretchen Guess                                                                                                   
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 474                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to public rights-of-way and easements for                                                                      
surface transportation affecting the Anchorage Coastal Wildlife                                                                 
Refuge."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 474                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:ANCHORAGE COASTAL WILDLIFE REFUGE                                                                                   
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)GREEN                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
02/19/02     2315       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
02/19/02     2315       (H)        CRA, RES                                                                                     
03/05/02                (H)        CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN                                                                                                        
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 404                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as the sponsor of HB 474.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
LAURA ACHEE, Staff                                                                                                              
to Representative Joe Green                                                                                                     
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 404                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on behalf of the sponsor of HB
474, Representative Green.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MARGARET KLATT                                                                                                                  
530 Oceanview Drive                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska 99515                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Urged the committee to support HB 474.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
[LORVEL] SHIELDS                                                                                                                
2140 Shore Drive                                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska 99515                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Urged the committee to pass HB 474.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
WAYNE PICHON, Secretary                                                                                                         
Bayshore/Klatt Community Council                                                                                                
2726 Diligence                                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska 99515                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Urged the committee to get [ACWR] under                                                                    
legislative oversight.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
PHIL WRIGHT                                                                                                                     
2710 Diligence Circle                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska 99515                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 474.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MIKE DOWNING, Director/Chief Engineer                                                                                           
Division of Statewide Design & Engineering Services                                                                             
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities                                                                                
3132 Channel Drive                                                                                                              
Juneau, Alaska 99801-7898                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 474.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHIP DENNERLIN, Director                                                                                                        
Juneau Office                                                                                                                   
Division of Habitat and Restoration                                                                                             
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
333 Raspberry Road                                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska 99518-1579                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 474.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-12, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  KEVIN MEYER  called the  House  Community and  Regional                                                               
Affairs  Standing  Committee  meeting   to  order  at  8:10  a.m.                                                               
Representatives Meyer, Scalzi, Murkowski,  and Guess were present                                                               
at  the  call to  order.    Representatives Morgan,  Halcro,  and                                                               
Kerttula  arrived  as the  meeting  was  in progress.    [Minutes                                                               
pertaining  to  the  overview  from   the  Alaska  Department  of                                                               
Evironmental   Conservation   low-suflur   diesel   sulfur   fuel                                                               
requirements can  be found  under the 9:08  a.m. minutes  for the                                                               
same date.]                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HB 474-ANCHORAGE COASTAL WILDLIFE REFUGE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MEYER announced that the  first order of business before                                                               
the committee  would be HOUSE BILL  NO. 474, "An Act  relating to                                                               
public  rights-of-way and  easements  for surface  transportation                                                               
affecting the Anchorage Coastal Wildlife Refuge."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN, Alaska  State Legislature, testified as                                                               
the sponsor of  HB 474.  Representative Green  began by informing                                                               
the  committee  that  [the   Anchorage  Coastal  Wildlife  Refuge                                                               
(ACWR)] is an area located on  the southwest side of Anchorage in                                                               
an  area that  is  shielded  by Fire  Island.    In the  triangle                                                               
between Fire  Island and the  coast from about Point  Woronzof to                                                               
the rifle range is a shielded  area that represents a unique salt                                                               
water environment that the state  put aside as a wildlife refuge.                                                               
This legislation,  HB 474, deals  with that small  portion, about                                                               
six miles, of coastline.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0221                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LAURA  ACHEE, Staff  to Representative  Joe  Green, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, testified  on behalf of the  sponsor, Representative                                                               
Green.  She reiterated that this  area is a unique area, which is                                                               
why  the legislature  chose  to  make it  into  a  refuge.   This                                                               
legislation,  HB  474, requests  that  final  authority over  any                                                               
easements or transportation rights-of-way  be granted to the body                                                               
that created ACWR, the legislature.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0293                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MURKOWSKI  referred  to   the  January  3,  2001,                                                               
minutes of  the Bayshore/Klatt  Community Council  meeting, which                                                               
indicates that there  will be a draft  environmental impact study                                                               
(EIS) that should be  ready May 1, 2002.  She  inquired as to the                                                               
status on  that EIS;  the minutes indicate  that the  final route                                                               
will be included in the final EIS.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  said, in  regard to when  the EIS  would be                                                               
ready, that the EIS would probably be done in May.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI  asked whether  HB 474 is  premature, if                                                               
the routing will be determined in the EIS.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN explained that there  is a proposal to put a                                                               
bike  path through  ACWR  and  thus the  desire  is  to have  the                                                               
legislature, the  group that created  the refuge,  [consider that                                                               
proposal].   The EIS  merely determines which  of the  three best                                                               
[routes]  would be  the most  expeditious to  construct with  the                                                               
least  environmental damage.   Representative  Green related  his                                                               
belief that coming  in later and exercising authority  would be a                                                               
mistake.   In  further response  to Representative  Murkowski, he                                                               
confirmed that  the routes highlighted  by gold, orange,  and red                                                               
on the  map in the  committee packet  are the three  routes being                                                               
considered in the EIS.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0555                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUESS related  her  understanding  that there  is                                                               
also a "fuchsia" route that is  a compromise route.  Some believe                                                               
that  the fuchsia  route is  one that  will go  through and  this                                                               
process [HB 474]  has a chance of not  helping the aforementioned                                                               
compromise.   She explained that she  garnered this understanding                                                               
from an  e-mail from someone  in the area.   Representative Guess                                                               
inquired as to  how many coastal wildlife refuges  there are, and                                                               
why  is  only ACWR  returning  to  the legislature  for  easement                                                               
review.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  reiterated that  ACWR is  in a  unique salt                                                               
water environment as are the species that inhabit the area.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUESS  commented,  "Isn't that  uniqueness  maybe                                                               
even a better  reason for us to  stay out of it."   She expressed                                                               
her concern with  this decision becoming political  and not going                                                               
through the process.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  acknowledged that Representative  Guess had                                                               
a good point.  He remarked,  "Maybe it's better to keep everybody                                                               
out of  it, and that's  why the  legislature who created  the ...                                                               
refuge in  the first  place, should have  final authority  to see                                                               
if, in  fact, that's  really ...  the best  for that  very unique                                                               
area."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUESS respectfully  disagreed, and  expressed the                                                               
need to know why special legislation is necessary for this area.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0791                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO informed the committee  that HB 474 is sort                                                               
of a rebirth of  HB 131.  This is a  contentious issue that began                                                               
back in  1998.   At that  time, there  was tremendous  concern by                                                               
Rick  Sinnott, Wildlife  Biologist, Alaska  Department of  Fish &                                                               
Game (ADF&G), regarding  the impacts of any  formal incursions in                                                               
this  area.   Representative Halcro  informed the  committee that                                                               
Mr. Sinnott  was quieted  on this  issue.   Representative Halcro                                                               
commented  that  this  has  already  become  a  political  issue,                                                               
especially when  Governor Knowles  announced where he  wanted the                                                               
trail.  He said he feels  that shifting this issue from the local                                                               
responsibility  to ADF&G,  makes  it  political.   Representative                                                               
Halcro  turned  to  Representative Guess'  questions  and  echoed                                                               
earlier comments  that ACWR is  a sensitive area that  is abutted                                                               
by many homes and private property.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN recalled  that during  the period  when the                                                               
municipality determined that  it might want a  bike trail through                                                               
the  area, the  governor  said  that it  was  a municipal  issue.                                                               
However, later  the governor  decided that the  issue is  a state                                                               
issue over which he has control.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MEYER  asked whether the representatives  from Anchorage                                                               
are still involved or is this a state issue now.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. ACHEE answered that it's completely a state issue.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUESS disagreed,  and said  she believes  that is                                                               
what the committee  is here to decide.   If HB 474  is passed, it                                                               
will become a state issue.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. ACHEE  informed the committee  that the Anchorage  Daily News                                                             
ran  an article  that said  that  in December  2000 the  governor                                                               
directed  three   state  agencies  to  take   over  planning  and                                                               
direction  of the  trail  and then  removed  the Municipality  of                                                               
Anchorage from the  planning segment.  Therefore,  this issue has                                                               
completely become a state issue at this point.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1077                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  inquired as  to whether an  opinion from                                                               
the  Legislative  Legal  Services  Division has  be  obtained  in                                                               
regard  to  having these  approvals  return  to the  legislature.                                                               
Representative  Kerttula noted  that she  wondered whether  there                                                               
are any  separation of powers  issues with  rights-of-way issues.                                                               
She said,  "Maybe we can  bar them  altogether, but what  I'm not                                                               
sure of -- I know you can't  do it with regulation because of the                                                               
A.L.I.V.E. Voluntary case,  but what I don't know  is whether you                                                             
know by statute we can do it."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  reiterated that HB  474 is a rewrite  of HB
131, which  passed both  bodies and was  vetoed by  the governor.                                                               
Therefore,  he  related his  belief  that  the legal  review  has                                                               
occurred, and that legislative review can occur.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  inquired as  to whether the  veto letter                                                               
mentioned that.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. ACHEE recalled that it wasn't mentioned in the veto letter.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA expressed her belief  that it is an issue                                                               
worth reviewing.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1277                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MARGARET KLATT testified  via teleconference.  She  said that the                                                               
proposed  extension of  the ACWR  is a  demonstration of  Alaskan                                                               
politics at its worst.  She said:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     It  appears  that  a  group   of  municipal  and  state                                                                    
     officials  with a  consultant from  the private  sector                                                                    
     has  misdirected  an  entire process  so  that  results                                                                    
     would  benefit   its  own   special  interest.     This                                                                    
     offensive process  has created extreme  polarization in                                                                    
     our  community,  has  ...   raised  state  and  federal                                                                    
     expenditures to  exorbitant amounts, and  has destroyed                                                                    
     trust and faith in governmental processes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. KLATT  remarked that  during her  three years  of involvement                                                               
with public meetings regarding  ACWR extension, the municipality,                                                               
the Alaska Department of Transportation  & Public Facilities, and                                                               
HDR  [Alaska, Inc.]  have focused  on  the promotion  of a  route                                                               
located below  the coastal bluff.   This is occurring,  even when                                                               
the guidelines  indicate that  all routes  are to  be considered,                                                               
including no route.   However, the other  options were dismissed.                                                               
Additionally,  a  new  route  was   recently  submitted  by  Chip                                                               
Dennerlin,  Alaska Department  of Fish  & Game.   This  route was                                                               
submitted after public  comment was no longer allowed.   This new                                                               
route is the latest route  that is supported by the municipality.                                                               
Ms. Klatt  informed the committee  that members of  the community                                                               
who  didn't  agree  with the  municipality's  chosen  route  were                                                               
poorly treated.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KLATT   noted  that   she  has   contacted  people   in  the                                                               
municipality,   the    Federal   Highway    Administration,   the                                                               
[Anchorage]  Assembly members,  and the  legislature.   She said,                                                               
"As of today, I have received  no explanation for what appears to                                                               
be a costly,  unethical, and perhaps illegal  process which gives                                                               
lip service to public testimony  and federal project guidelines."                                                               
She pointed out that the cost  of this project has increased from                                                               
$300,000  to $2.2  million  and  still no  design  or solid  plan                                                               
exists.   Clearly,  this is  a faulty  process that  needs to  be                                                               
stopped.  Therefore, Ms. Klatt  urged the committee to support HB
474 because it requires legislative oversight.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1412                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
[LORVEL]  SHIELDS  testified  via teleconference.    Mr.  Shields                                                               
informed the committee  that he has a doctorate  in biology, with                                                               
expertise in ecology  and animal behavior.  He  also informed the                                                               
committee that he has lived on  the on the bluff overlooking ACWR                                                               
for about 13 years and  has spent innumerable hours leading field                                                               
trips in the  refuge.  Furthermore, Mr. Shields noted  that he is                                                               
a  hard core  bicyclists  and  thus makes  extensive  use of  the                                                               
Anchorage trail  system.  Mr.  Shields highlighted the  fact that                                                               
for  the   last  five  years   he  has  served  as   the  elected                                                               
representative  for  the   Bayshore/Klatt  Community  Council  on                                                               
coastal wildlife refuge issues and  thus has attended hundreds of                                                               
hours of  public meetings  concerning the  route of  the proposed                                                               
southern extension  of the Anchorage  trail system.   Mr. Shields                                                               
said, "What I  saw was a cabal compromised  of engineering firms,                                                               
the City of Anchorage, ADOT  [Alaska Department of Transportation                                                               
& Public Facilities], and other  representatives of the executive                                                               
branch of  the Alaska State government."   He was sure  that each                                                               
entity  had  its  own  agenda.    For  example,  the  engineering                                                               
companies  wanted  the  contracts.    Furthermore,  the  City  of                                                               
Anchorage wanted  the trail in  spite of  the fact that  it can't                                                               
maintain its current  trails.  "The end product  of this grouping                                                               
was, and  continues to be  a concerted, collective effort  to get                                                               
the trail built with virtually  no regard to the biological worth                                                               
of this rare  salt marsh ecosystem or the cost  of this project,"                                                               
he charged.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHIELDS  said that although  he doesn't know the  outcome, he                                                               
does know  that ACWR  is a  state refuge  that doesn't  belong to                                                               
engineering  firms, the  City  of Anchorage,  ADOT,  or even  the                                                               
governor.  The  ACWR belongs to the citizens of  the state.  "And                                                               
what happens at  any state refuge is important  to all Alaskans,"                                                               
he stated.  For example, a  few years ago spring arrived late and                                                               
a fly-over  census by ADF&G  found that approximately  1,500 snow                                                               
geese, 10,000  Canadian geese, and  too many ducks to  count were                                                               
waiting in the  ACWR.  These animals sustained  themselves in the                                                               
refuge for about ten days because  ACWR is an intact and thriving                                                               
ecosystem.  Mr. Shields urged the committee to pass HB 474.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1572                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
WAYNE  PICHON,   Secretary,  Bayshore/Klatt   Community  Council,                                                               
testified via teleconference.  He  informed the committee that he                                                               
has advanced  degrees in  wetlands ecology,  and is  co-author of                                                               
the  original Anchorage  wetlands plan  as well  as co-author  of                                                               
wetlands  of  Potter  Marsh.    Mr.  Pichon  announced  that  the                                                               
Bayshore/Klatt Community  Council endorses  HB 474.   However, he                                                               
questioned why  "we" are here.   He explained that two  years ago                                                               
the legislature passed HB 131, which  was similar to HB 474.  The                                                               
governor vetoed  HB 131 saying  he felt that the  legislature had                                                               
no  business  interfering with  a  local  public process.    "Our                                                               
belief is that we want  your legislative oversight into a process                                                               
that has  been anything but  public, and,  in our view,  has been                                                               
flawed from  the inception,"  he emphasized.   He noted  that the                                                               
project  team  was  repeatedly  advised  that  it  was  facing  a                                                               
collision course with  the wishes of the residents.   Even in the                                                               
face of  obvious federal law,  [the project team] persisted.   He                                                               
pointed  out that  the  costs for  the  preliminary planning  has                                                               
skyrocketed by 633 percent, and still the project team persists.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. PICHON  noted that some would  want you to believe  that this                                                               
is an  Anchorage-only issue,  while others  would claim  that the                                                               
legislature has no  business being involved in  a local decision.                                                               
"Why, then, did the state [take]  control of the project from the                                                               
municipality,"  he asked.    He highlighted  the  point that  the                                                               
refuge is  a state refuge not  a municipal refuge.   "Could it be                                                               
that those who want to build in  the refuge do not want to expose                                                               
the soft underbelly of an  out-of-control process," he asked.  He                                                               
also  questioned  why  it  was   necessary  for  three  community                                                               
councils in  the effected  area to  have to  come forward  with a                                                               
route they  preferred over  the routes  submitted by  the project                                                               
team  and consultant.   Mr.  Pichon  urged the  committee to  get                                                               
[ACWR] under legislative oversight.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI returned to the  timing of the draft EIS                                                               
and inquired as to whether Mr. Pichon had an update on that.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PICHON noted  that  in talking  with  Mr. Childress,  Alaska                                                               
Department of  Transportation & Public Facilities,  he understood                                                               
that the draft EIS is still on track for May.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1809                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PHIL WRIGHT  testified via teleconference  in support of  HB 474.                                                               
Mr. Wright  recommended that the  committee consider the  cost to                                                               
build and  maintain a trail  located below the  bluff, especially                                                               
in light of the aforementioned  seven-fold increase in the amount                                                               
to study  the trail.   He informed  the committee that  ADF&G has                                                               
recommended  a screened  board walk  raised on  ten foot  pilings                                                               
with camouflage.   Furthermore, this  board walk would  be closed                                                               
April through  August in order to  protect nesting.  "Is  there a                                                               
reason to  believe this  won't take the  cost to  a proportionate                                                               
seven-fold  increase,"  he questioned.    He  relayed his  recent                                                               
understanding that maintenance on  the existing coastal trail for                                                               
an  area at  or  around the  marsh is  estimated  at $500,000  to                                                               
maintain one-third of  a mile of trail.   Therefore, extension of                                                               
that  to  13 miles  of  trail  would  result  in a  $6.5  million                                                               
maintenance bill not  provided for under any DOT&PF  funds he was                                                               
aware of.  Mr. Wright felt that  the cost of the trail on pilings                                                               
could easily grow  proportionately to a total of  $144 million of                                                               
which  $14.4 [million]  would have  to  come from  Alaskans.   In                                                               
these  times of  budget  constraints, Mr.  Wright didn't  believe                                                               
such spending for a trail would be well-received by taxpayers.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. WRIGHT,  in response  to Representative  Murkowski, confirmed                                                               
that one of the studies from  ADF&G recommended that the trail be                                                               
closed from April to August.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1991                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PICHON  turned  to  the   fuchsia  route,  which  some  have                                                               
characterized  as a  compromise.   He stressed  that the  fuchsia                                                               
route is  a compromise  in the  view of  one or  two individuals.                                                               
From discussions with the individual  biologists involved and the                                                               
others who would review and  do the permitting, the fuchsia route                                                               
isn't  all that  some  would  lead you  to  believe.   Individual                                                               
biologists have  said that the  minimum acceptable  [trail] would                                                               
be  elevated and  would  be  closed during  the  peak periods  of                                                               
nesting and brooding.  "The  concern, though, is not just whether                                                               
the trail  is closed  or not.   The whole concern  is how  do you                                                               
even  build  it  down  there,   without  severely  impacting  the                                                               
hydrology of  that area,"  he asked.   He  noted that  studies he                                                               
performed in the  early 1970s, which were  [supported] by studies                                                               
done in the 1990s, indicate  that any surface construction in the                                                               
area  would  disrupt  the vegetation  pattern.    Therefore,  the                                                               
animals that people want to view will be driven out.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2127                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  DOWNING,  Director/Chief  Engineer, Division  of  Statewide                                                               
Design  & Engineering  Services, Department  of Transportation  &                                                               
Public Facilities,  related his belief  that there seems to  be a                                                               
substantial  degree  of  misunderstanding  of  the  facts.    Mr.                                                               
Downing  informed  the  committee   that  his  division  performs                                                               
project development.  Two considerations  of this project is that                                                               
this  project began  five-and-a-half years  ago and  $2.1 million                                                               
has  been spent.    That  illustrates the  difficulty  of such  a                                                               
project, and  the amount of  public input and analysis  that goes                                                               
into  an EIS.   This  [EIS]  is under  [the department's]  merged                                                               
process that is  an agreement with DOT&PF, the  state and federal                                                               
resource  agencies,  and   the  Federal  Highway  Administration.                                                               
Under  this  agreement,  the  environmental  process/document  is                                                               
combined  with  permitting.    It  is referred  to  as  the  NEPA                                                               
[National   Environmental  Policy   Act  of   1969]  404   merger                                                               
agreement.    That  agreement  includes  steps  for  concurrence.                                                               
Although  one  of  the  first   steps  of  concurrence  has  been                                                               
achieved, there  isn't concurrence on the  range of alternatives.                                                               
Alternatives are  still being developed.   After  the development                                                               
of  those alternatives  there  will be  another  round of  public                                                               
comment.  Public comment will also  be received on the U.S. Corps                                                               
of  Engineers' 404  permit, as  well as  the final  environmental                                                               
document.  Therefore, much more public comment will be heard.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOWNING  explained that  this  process  began as  a  locally                                                               
sponsored   project  under   the   Anchorage  Metropolitan   Area                                                               
Transportation Study (AMATS), to  which the department responded.                                                               
He noted that the department  will continue to respond whether HB
474 passes or  not.  The schedule  is to put out a  draft EIS for                                                               
public comment in  mid-April with a final EIS  projected for mid-                                                               
September.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2312                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MURKOWSKI  related  her  understanding  that  Mr.                                                               
Downing  is suggesting  that there  are  more alternative  routes                                                               
than shown  on the  map included  in the  committee packet.   And                                                               
those other alternative  routes will be included in  the EIS that                                                               
is produced in mid-April.  She  said she also understood that the                                                               
final route  won't be chosen  until after all the  public comment                                                               
is completed in September.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOWNING replied  yes.  The draft EIS will  come out in April,                                                               
following concurrence by  the resource agencies in  regard to the                                                               
range  of alternatives.   In  further response  to Representative                                                               
Murkowski,  Mr.  Downing  acknowledged  that  the  department  is                                                               
working  with  ADF&G  to  develop the  fuchsia  route,  which  is                                                               
different than the red route.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MURKOWSKI expressed  her curiosity  in regard  to                                                               
where the fuchsia route would go.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOWNING  noted  that  the [fuchsia  route]  is  designed  to                                                               
minimize  the   impact  on  habitat,  while   creating  the  best                                                               
experience for the trail user.   Much of [the choice of route] is                                                               
driven by  the habitat issues.   Therefore, Mr.  Downing deferred                                                               
to Mr. Dennerlin.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2442                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHIP DENNERLIN, Director, Juneau  Office, Division of Habitat and                                                               
Restoration,  Alaska Department  of Fish  & Game,  noted that  he                                                               
didn't  design  the fuchsia  route,  nor  does  he work  for  the                                                               
municipality.   However, he informed  the committee of  his long-                                                               
time association with  the trail and the refuge due  to living on                                                               
the bluff  in the past.   Furthermore, he  noted that he  was the                                                               
State Parks Director  and helped put the  land agreement together                                                               
to  protect the  rifle range  during the  Hammond Administration.                                                               
Mr. Dennerlin  also noted that he  is a hunter and  has harvested                                                               
12 species off of the ACWR, and  is an avid bird watcher, and has                                                               
walked and  skied nearly all of  the trail.  He  agreed that ACWR                                                               
is a gem.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. DENNERLIN turned  to the time when he took  his position, and                                                               
mentioned  the  frustration with  the  deadlock  over the  trail.                                                               
However, he  acknowledged that there  are many  legitimate issues                                                               
from all  perspectives.  Mr. Dennerlin  recalled past discussions                                                               
over  boundaries,  and  related  his belief  that  people  didn't                                                               
really  listen to  each other.   Furthermore,  he said  he didn't                                                               
believe  that a  clear set  of principles  had been  established.                                                               
Therefore,  he  had  DOT&PF,  the  consultants,  ADF&G,  and  the                                                               
municipality come together  to outline a clear  set of principles                                                               
for  the trail.    He  indicated that  those  principles were  to                                                               
connect people  to the coast and  provide people with a  sense of                                                               
place that  is consistent with  the adopted plans of  the refuge.                                                               
He  explained that  a  trail can  be  placed in  a  refuge if  it                                                               
doesn't damage sensitive  populations.  The desire  is to provide                                                               
people  with  the  opportunity   to  experience  the  area  while                                                               
protecting wildlife corridors  and movement.  There  was also the                                                               
desire  to determine  whether  existing  infrastructure could  be                                                               
utilized rather  than impacting neighborhoods.   Also,  the users                                                               
were  defined, and  it was  realized  that the  users aren't  one                                                               
group.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2734                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DENNERLIN  turned to  the  new  alternative route  that  was                                                               
developed.    He  explained  that the  [working  group  team]  is                                                               
recommending a  more coastal plan in  order that it be  placed on                                                               
the list  of viable  alternatives in  substitution of  the orange                                                               
route.  Mr. Dennerlin announced,  "Somebody else might permit the                                                               
orange route,  but it won't  be me."   There are sections  of the                                                             
orange route that  aren't acceptable.  He then turned  to the "4-                                                             
F"  issue, which  is a  test regarding  whether a  transportation                                                               
facility can be  built inside the boundaries  of protected lands.                                                               
To that Mr. Dennerlin said such  could be built, "for a purpose,"                                                               
he stressed.   Therefore, legislatively  protected land  can't be                                                               
used as  the convenient venue  for a transportation  project that                                                               
isn't integral to the place, or  where the character of the place                                                               
isn't part of the experience that  is trying to be conveyed.  The                                                             
4-F  is designed  to prevent  convenient misuse.   Mr.  Dennerlin                                                             
related his belief  that the [fuchsia] route is one  that the 4-F                                                               
is designed to direct people to focus on.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-12, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DENNERLIN  mentioned  connecting green  belt  easements  and                                                               
existing  infrastructure.   He also  mentioned that  [the fuchsia                                                               
route]  would direct  people out  of the  most sensitive  coastal                                                               
sections.   There is also  the possibility of creating  spurs for                                                               
lookouts on the trail.  "We think  we can do a route that is much                                                               
more sensitive to the refuge.   There will be ... specific design                                                               
issues to work out  ..., but I think this new  board walk will be                                                               
able to be engineered without  many bells and whistles, making it                                                               
much  more reasonable,"  he explained.   Mr.  Dennerlin expressed                                                               
his  hope  that [the  fuchsia  route]  will receive  much  public                                                               
support.   In closing,  Mr. Dennerlin  thanked the  committee for                                                               
its concern  regarding any intrusion into  state critical habitat                                                               
areas and refuges.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MEYER  asked if Mr.  Dennerlin and Mr. Downing  would be                                                               
available to return for further testimony on HB 474.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. DENNERLIN said  he would be able to return.   He acknowledged                                                               
the frustration in  the testimony and noted that it  is trying to                                                               
be addressed.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOWNING informed  the committee that there  is design funding                                                               
and  environmental document  funding for  this project;  however,                                                               
there  is   no  construction  funding.     In  order   to  obtain                                                               
construction  funding,  the AMATS  policy  council  will have  to                                                               
choose this  project as  something it  wants to  fund.   Then the                                                               
project would move  on to the Anchorage Assembly  for approval of                                                               
the Transportation  Improvement Plan (TIP), after  which it would                                                               
go  to   the  legislature  for   funding  for   the  construction                                                               
appropriation.    Under  the  NEPA   process,  the  selection  of                                                               
alternatives  takes  place in  the  public  arena.   During  that                                                               
public process, the  legislature can determine it's  not going to                                                               
do it  but the public process  can't be directed and  [can't] use                                                               
federal funds to build.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2771                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DENNERLIN remarked  that  the change  in  direction of  this                                                               
process is  not a  political football.   There  were some  on the                                                               
TRAAK  [Trails  and  Recreation Access  for  Alaska]  board  that                                                               
believed that the fundamental issues  of this trail were going to                                                               
be  issues   regarding  users,  such  as   hunting  and  wildlife                                                               
management.   However,  hunting  and  wildlife management  aren't                                                               
included in  the Anchorage charter.   Therefore, the municipality                                                               
is  unsuited to  address several  of the  fundamental issues  and                                                               
thus the TRAAK board recommended  that the state departments come                                                               
together in a team approach.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR MEYER announced that HB 474 would be held.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Community  and Regional  Affairs Standing  Committee took  an at-                                                               
ease  at  9:06  a.m.  in  order to  hear  an  overview  from  the                                                               
Department  of Environmental  Conservation  regarding low  sulfur                                                               
diesel  fuel  requirements.    [The  minutes  pertaining  to  the                                                               
aforementioned overview can be found  under the 9:08 a.m. minutes                                                               
for the same date.]                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects